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	<title>Comments for The Workers&#039; Paradise</title>
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	<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog</link>
	<description>A Discussion of Workers Cooperatives and Building the New Economy</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 10:05:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Co-operative Index by MJ Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=388&#038;cpage=1#comment-645</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 10:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=388#comment-645</guid>
		<description>About &quot;how do you know it is being followed?&quot;

If I recall correctly, in theory, following the Worker Co-operative Code of Governance is a condition of membership of Co-operatives UK, so all worker co-ops who are members follow it.

In practice, resource shortages and poor practices (IMO - it feels like everything Co-operatives UK does has to be done by staff or elected representatives) means that it&#039;s not yet been checked and I&#039;ve only ever heard of software.coop producing reports (and sending actions to our decision-makers) from it, although I expect some others do too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About &#8220;how do you know it is being followed?&#8221;</p>
<p>If I recall correctly, in theory, following the Worker Co-operative Code of Governance is a condition of membership of Co-operatives UK, so all worker co-ops who are members follow it.</p>
<p>In practice, resource shortages and poor practices (IMO &#8211; it feels like everything Co-operatives UK does has to be done by staff or elected representatives) means that it&#8217;s not yet been checked and I&#8217;ve only ever heard of software.coop producing reports (and sending actions to our decision-makers) from it, although I expect some others do too.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Co-operative Index by John McNamara</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=388&#038;cpage=1#comment-643</link>
		<dc:creator>John McNamara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=388#comment-643</guid>
		<description>Bob,

Thanks for your comments. The tool has been refined a little bit. I agree with your comments in principle, however, I think that the point is to take action on the reports. We can&#039;t really know where to improve our coops if we don&#039;t measure them. Creating metrics for the values and ethics is, to me, vital if we are really going to create something different. If we aren&#039;t getting the engagement from our membership (the ephemeralaity of the compliance and commitment as you eloquently phrase it), then what are we really creating? I would argue that we fail to get engagement because we aren&#039;t really creating structures significantly different from our non-coop competitors. If it is just a job, then why bother exerting the effort?

The &quot;code&quot;, at first glance, looks great. But how do you know it is being followed? What is the rank-n-file workers (or a segment of them) think it is being violated but another faction (or the leaders) think it is being followed? Without a way to measure that, it becomes like some many other codes--something to hang on the wall and become a source of conflict.

As to the question from the web site link (why haven&#039;t worker coops developed in UK as they have in Spain and Italy)? 

The answer isn&#039;t that we haven&#039;t learned how to properly manage; we haven&#039;t really even tried to figure out what that means due to  the root structure of paternalism that developed at the beginning of capitalism. Even the Fabian Society disregarded the worker as an errant child in need of a strong parental hand. The Fabian&#039;s parent may have been a socialist, but it was still a parent. I think that the Spanish and the Italians reject that and argue for the value of all humans. Essentially accepting the Distributism of Chesterton and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pope Leo XIII&#039;s Rerum Novarum&lt;/a&gt; without the negative baggage that this movement destroyed itself.

The Oslo Declaration, the Coop Index Tool and (I imagine), the Worker Coop Code are attempts to correct that error in coop history. It will take a mix of things and likely a life-time or two of development to really get to those answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. The tool has been refined a little bit. I agree with your comments in principle, however, I think that the point is to take action on the reports. We can&#8217;t really know where to improve our coops if we don&#8217;t measure them. Creating metrics for the values and ethics is, to me, vital if we are really going to create something different. If we aren&#8217;t getting the engagement from our membership (the ephemeralaity of the compliance and commitment as you eloquently phrase it), then what are we really creating? I would argue that we fail to get engagement because we aren&#8217;t really creating structures significantly different from our non-coop competitors. If it is just a job, then why bother exerting the effort?</p>
<p>The &#8220;code&#8221;, at first glance, looks great. But how do you know it is being followed? What is the rank-n-file workers (or a segment of them) think it is being violated but another faction (or the leaders) think it is being followed? Without a way to measure that, it becomes like some many other codes&#8211;something to hang on the wall and become a source of conflict.</p>
<p>As to the question from the web site link (why haven&#8217;t worker coops developed in UK as they have in Spain and Italy)? </p>
<p>The answer isn&#8217;t that we haven&#8217;t learned how to properly manage; we haven&#8217;t really even tried to figure out what that means due to  the root structure of paternalism that developed at the beginning of capitalism. Even the Fabian Society disregarded the worker as an errant child in need of a strong parental hand. The Fabian&#8217;s parent may have been a socialist, but it was still a parent. I think that the Spanish and the Italians reject that and argue for the value of all humans. Essentially accepting the Distributism of Chesterton and <a href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html" rel="nofollow">Pope Leo XIII&#8217;s Rerum Novarum</a> without the negative baggage that this movement destroyed itself.</p>
<p>The Oslo Declaration, the Coop Index Tool and (I imagine), the Worker Coop Code are attempts to correct that error in coop history. It will take a mix of things and likely a life-time or two of development to really get to those answers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Co-operative Index by Bob cannell</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=388&#038;cpage=1#comment-642</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob cannell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=388#comment-642</guid>
		<description>We have been using The Worker Cooperative Code of Governance in the UK www.workercode.coop to do the same but in a very pragmatic form. 

There&#039;s not much point creating reports in worker coops because they don&#039;t get actiond (much like most businesses in fact). Far better to have a simple r call to discussion and agreement which is the intention of the worker code. 

Im sorry to say I found the 185+ questions of the coop index difficult to get through and rather non-intuitive which is a big drawback for use &#039;In the field&#039; where compliance and commitment are ephemeral (catch them before they lose interest).

The 42 points of the worker code are arranged around the ICA7 and incorporate the ICA/CICOPA definition of a worker cooperative (which is missing from the original 7) the points are written from the point of view of direct experience of worker cooperators themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been using The Worker Cooperative Code of Governance in the UK <a href="http://www.workercode.coop" rel="nofollow">http://www.workercode.coop</a> to do the same but in a very pragmatic form. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s not much point creating reports in worker coops because they don&#8217;t get actiond (much like most businesses in fact). Far better to have a simple r call to discussion and agreement which is the intention of the worker code. </p>
<p>Im sorry to say I found the 185+ questions of the coop index difficult to get through and rather non-intuitive which is a big drawback for use &#8216;In the field&#8217; where compliance and commitment are ephemeral (catch them before they lose interest).</p>
<p>The 42 points of the worker code are arranged around the ICA7 and incorporate the ICA/CICOPA definition of a worker cooperative (which is missing from the original 7) the points are written from the point of view of direct experience of worker cooperators themselves.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Co-operative Index by MJ Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=388&#038;cpage=1#comment-638</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=388#comment-638</guid>
		<description>So where&#039;s the Co-op Index Tool then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So where&#8217;s the Co-op Index Tool then?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Compassion in Worker Cooperatives by Brook</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=365&#038;cpage=1#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>Brook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=365#comment-636</guid>
		<description>I appreciate you sharing this. It reminds me why I like UCC so much!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate you sharing this. It reminds me why I like UCC so much!</p>
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		<title>Comment on #22 Education, Training and Information by Worker Co-ops and Workers or All in the Family &#171; The Workers&#039; Paradise</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=221&#038;cpage=1#comment-602</link>
		<dc:creator>Worker Co-ops and Workers or All in the Family &#171; The Workers&#039; Paradise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=221#comment-602</guid>
		<description>[...] and take that responsibility seriously. This means spending a lot of money (co-operative assets) on education, training and information (the 5th Principle). It also means making requirements on our membership that may seem onerous [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and take that responsibility seriously. This means spending a lot of money (co-operative assets) on education, training and information (the 5th Principle). It also means making requirements on our membership that may seem onerous [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Co-operative and Its Workers by Greg Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=323&#038;cpage=1#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=323#comment-589</guid>
		<description>Ya, that&#039;s why I&#039;m hardly bothering with doing it with existing co-ops. IMO, you have to establish good models and have some sexy infrastructure (like mesh networks that can offer significant marketing to co-ops), then you say to co-ops that entry to federation and all it&#039;s benefits requires that they become a participatory co-op with say-proportionate-to-stake, multi-stake holder structure, tax savings, and powerful finance/equity structures. That&#039;s what I&#039;m doing, because I can&#039;t stand the morally bankrupt reasons why all the co-ops and/or collectives won&#039;t change into participatory co-ops. It&#039;s not hard to get them all to balled-faced admit they don&#039;t want full community democracy involved in their operation, they almost all want to hold out for becoming successful and having their own fiefdom controlled by a clique. Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya, that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m hardly bothering with doing it with existing co-ops. IMO, you have to establish good models and have some sexy infrastructure (like mesh networks that can offer significant marketing to co-ops), then you say to co-ops that entry to federation and all it&#8217;s benefits requires that they become a participatory co-op with say-proportionate-to-stake, multi-stake holder structure, tax savings, and powerful finance/equity structures. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m doing, because I can&#8217;t stand the morally bankrupt reasons why all the co-ops and/or collectives won&#8217;t change into participatory co-ops. It&#8217;s not hard to get them all to balled-faced admit they don&#8217;t want full community democracy involved in their operation, they almost all want to hold out for becoming successful and having their own fiefdom controlled by a clique. Good luck!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Co-operative and Its Workers by John McNamara</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=323&#038;cpage=1#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>John McNamara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 23:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=323#comment-585</guid>
		<description>Greg,

I agree most certainly--and I will get to that discussion soon. Of course, turning existing co-operatives into multi-stakeholders means uprooting existing power structures, hierarchies and power cliques (a lot easier said than done). Also, keep in mind that a lot of consumer (George Bernard Shaw included) don&#039;t believe in the ability of workers to manage let alone participate in governance. That is what should make this a very fun discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,</p>
<p>I agree most certainly&#8211;and I will get to that discussion soon. Of course, turning existing co-operatives into multi-stakeholders means uprooting existing power structures, hierarchies and power cliques (a lot easier said than done). Also, keep in mind that a lot of consumer (George Bernard Shaw included) don&#8217;t believe in the ability of workers to manage let alone participate in governance. That is what should make this a very fun discussion!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Co-operative and Its Workers by Greg Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=323&#038;cpage=1#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 21:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=323#comment-584</guid>
		<description>This is easy, multiple categories of membership. So that no one interest group (consumers nor workers or adjunct service providers and community groups) can alienate the rest of the community in policy... And in fact well rounded policy is almost guaranteed by a multi-stakeholder co-op.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is easy, multiple categories of membership. So that no one interest group (consumers nor workers or adjunct service providers and community groups) can alienate the rest of the community in policy&#8230; And in fact well rounded policy is almost guaranteed by a multi-stakeholder co-op.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Worker&#8217;s Cooperative That Should&#8217;ve Been In Michael Moore&#8217;s Movie by Clay Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=185&#038;cpage=1#comment-524</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 01:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=185#comment-524</guid>
		<description>Since when is 18-20 dollars an hour (36,000 to 40,000 per year at a 40 hour week) poor pay? That&#039;s 10,ooo dollars more than the poverty line for a family of four, and 9,000 dollars over the national average. That&#039;s more than alot of white collar workers make and with benefits. It&#039;s around the average for a college graduate ten years out of school. I highly doubt that your son or daughter was making 18-20 per hour over a 40 hour week as a full time whole year position straight out of highschool and if they were, I&#039;d recommend that they keep that job in this economy as millions of people around this country would apply for their jobs if they were offered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since when is 18-20 dollars an hour (36,000 to 40,000 per year at a 40 hour week) poor pay? That&#8217;s 10,ooo dollars more than the poverty line for a family of four, and 9,000 dollars over the national average. That&#8217;s more than alot of white collar workers make and with benefits. It&#8217;s around the average for a college graduate ten years out of school. I highly doubt that your son or daughter was making 18-20 per hour over a 40 hour week as a full time whole year position straight out of highschool and if they were, I&#8217;d recommend that they keep that job in this economy as millions of people around this country would apply for their jobs if they were offered.</p>
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